Author Topic: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown  (Read 14542 times)

Embedded-Systems-Designer

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89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« on: November 03, 2006, 07:58:37 am »
Hello!

I'm working on a project using the 89V51RD2 chip from Philips.  I noticed that Flash Magic provides an option for this chip called "Device Configuration" under the ISP menu.  It looks like it would allow the chip to enter ISP in several different ways, not just via autobaud detect after reset.

This command is very appealing to me, but I can't get it to work.  I used a port monitor to see that the ISP intel hex record command number was 0x0C.  There is no documentation for this command in the 89V51RD2 datasheet.

Could someone tell me where I can find documentation for this command?

John



Post Edited (11-03-06 14:05)

Andy Ayre

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2006, 07:54:28 am »
This is a new feature that is implemented in some versions of the 89(L)V51Rx2 bootloader. I'm not 100% sure which versions of the bootloader support this feature however. You might want to try contacting your local NXP FAE for details.

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Embedded-Systems-Designer

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2006, 04:50:08 am »
Hi Andy,

Thank you for your reply.

I have been using the support tools at the NXP website to try to get some documentation on this.  As of right now, I am engaged in a forum-like discussion with one of their engineers.  I don't know if he knows what I am referring to when I ask him to verify the existance of this command record number.

If Flash Magic was written with the intention of allowing this command to be accessed specifically for the 89(L)V51RD2 families, Embedded Systems Academy must know where I can get documentation and/or the bootloader that accepts this command.  I have even downloaded the most recent release of the bootloader that I could find from the NXP site (V05) and it fails to accept this command in the way that I understand it.  In fact, sending this command causes my target system to fail!

Is there any more help you could provide?

John

Andy Ayre

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2006, 06:37:57 am »
We discussed the feature with Philips, but it is up to them to implement it, release the bootloader and document it. I'm waiting to hear back from an engineer at Philips.

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Embedded-Systems-Designer

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2006, 07:11:58 am »
Do you know if there will there be some sort of posting or announcement when this feature is either implemented or scrubbed?

John

Jan Waclawek

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2006, 01:26:54 am »
Andy,

Isn't this related to the "yellow label V51RD2 won't erase" problem (http://www.esacademy.com/software/flashmagic/forum/read.php?f=1&i=2996&t=2996 and http://www.esacademy.com/software/flashmagic/forum/read.php?f=1&i=3032&t=3032 )?

Can you plese share with us what you have learned on the topic of bootloader changes so far? Does NXP already sell chips with factory-burned bootloader version other than 4 (or 5)?

I have found this note http://www.standardics.nxp.com/support/documents/microcontrollers/pdf/tn06007.pdf , and it says (under Remarks):

1.  Within a short notice a new release of the ISP/IAP software which emulates the C family ISP/IAP .
The customer can download and update the software in the field.
2.  P89V51RX2 with a bootrom program revision 7(for RD) and revision 3 (for RB/RC)  or later will have
the option to skip the startup delay of 400msec and to force the ISP mode from every selected IO
pin. This can be programmed via ISP. The version number can be read via ISP.

---

I don't quite understand why Philips/NXP is making such a hassle around the modified bootloader; and, more importantly, I don't understand the mysterious atmosphere they make around it. Why can't they simply publish what they do in a decent way?

The modification I present on my website was made in one evening, complete with "reprogrammer" and some info, without having access to actual sources. OK I admit it was only a small change and they might be planning for more thorough changes, but I don't quite understand why does it take them months to accomplish (I have the document referenced above in v0.5 dated June 2006 which already announced the new bootloader - what have we now, November?).

But what makes me completely crazy is how they (don't) document any of it... (plus that insane website, it's always a challenge to find any relevant info on it).


Sorry, I know it's not your nor ESAcademy's fault...


Jan Waclawek


PS. Shouldn't  FM check the bootloader version before it attempts to use a newly introduced feature?


Andy Ayre

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2006, 05:59:36 am »
I'm still waiting for some suggestions regarding the 89V51Rx2 erase problem. I've reminded my contact at NXP about the problems.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think that you are better off directing your comments towards NXP. We are a seperate company and as such we are not privy to or involved with the internal decision making of other companies.

It would be a good idea that FM checks the bootloader version first and we will look into that, however it was probably anticipated that the new bootloader would be in widespread use fairly quickly. From our experience that is what usually seems to happen.

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erikm

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2006, 08:54:42 am »
 it was probably anticipated that the new bootloader would be in widespread use fairly quickly. From our experience that is what usually seems to happen

I would be careful with that assumption.  There have been posts from people in farawayistan that purchased 'new' chips that had been made ages ago and the problems they incurred took long to detect simply because nobody assumed they still existed in 'new' chips.

Erik

erik

Andy Ayre

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2006, 08:58:33 am »
True. In this specific situation the worst that will happen is that Flash Magic will generate an error when an attempt is made to change the device configuration. Flash Magic won't crash and the invalid command will not affect the device. What will happen is that NXP and ourselves will be contacted to find out about that feature.

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Embedded-Systems-Designer

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2006, 09:31:13 am »
Actually, I have tried to use this command and found that it causes the processor to fail!

I loaded the chip with verified executable code and then attempted to use the "Device Configuration" feature on the chip.  After applying power to the chip, my code wasn't running.  I looked at the data stored in flash by using the "Display Flash" feature and noticed that the first two bytes of flash were corrupted.

So the effect of this command seems to be the writing (or overwriting) the first two bytes of flash.

John

Andy Ayre

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2006, 09:49:42 am »
OK, so I'll eat my words. I'll look into this and let NXP know. Thanks.

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Andy Ayre

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2006, 10:24:55 am »
OK, NXP decided not to release the new bootloaders in production devices, instead it is only available as an end-user upgrade.

To get the hex file for your device along with a document describing the command go to the Flash Magic page at http://www.esacademy.com/software/flashmagic/fmfree.htm
Scroll down to the bottom.
In the Third Party Documentation and Files section you will find the link.

We will work on a solution to the problem of people using the feature in Flash Magic when they don't have an updated bootloader.

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Embedded-Systems-Designer

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2006, 10:45:40 am »
Hi Andy,

Thank you very much!  You have helped me immensely.  I tried the new bootloader and it worked perfectly!

Thanks again!

John

Jan Waclawek

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Re: 89V51RD2 ISP Command Unknown
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2006, 12:15:59 am »
Andy,

I apologize.

Jan Waclawek